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Great shutterbug 2004-10-07 11:07

That is a fine example of some people thinking the world revolves around them...and their children. You should have told that person that if their daughter's bee-hind wasn't haging out of her swimsuit, it wouldn't be in the picture!!! :) It is a wonderful capture of a very "decisive moment". Great composition, the girl helps balance the photo, be sure and thank her parent..hehe :) Great job
~Stacey

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Old 10-07-2004, 06:38 PM
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Default To shutterbug: don't agree here

Hallo Miss Hines,

I find your answer ... yes how can I put it ... a bit unsensitive. The internet is full of pictures showing people at beaches and elsewhere in a context surely not appreciated by the photographed person. So if I see someone photopraph my daughter I would also be alarmed. Normally you have to asked people if it is appreciated to make photo's of them and if you don't ask them (especially with their children) then it's totally understandable that they get angry.
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Old 10-07-2004, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: To shutterbug: don't agree here

Thomas,

even though this thread addresses to shutterbug I would like to reply to it in a few lines...

This is what precisely killed Photojournalism in Europe. Have you ever wondered why there are so few photo topics about Europe but mainly now Asia or Africa? Doisneau, HCB, Boubat, all humanist photos are now gone forever, it would be near to impossible to do a photo exhib on europeans nowadays : simply because individualism, fear of the other and a certain understanding of the "image rights" is the mainstream thinking.
Ask someone to shoot him (or her) it will most certainly be "no, I don't want you to earn money on my back" (hahha big joke...).

Do you seriously think HCB asked his subjects whether they were ok to be photo'ed? How could he then shoot decisive moments?

I see from your photos that you generally don't shoot people (I don't say this is good or bad, it's a fact) you then might not front these issues often.
For me who cannot conceive an image without someone in, Paris has become an impossible photo playground, I must play hide and seek all the time. Therefore I can say that I NEVER ask permission to my subjects in Europe.

We will then come to the point : has Jorrit raped the girl? he says no, we don't have any proof, we will then pretend he didn't do anything. Is the girl harmed in any ways? No again...
Why then pretend fear and threats are everywhere when you exit your house? Photographers take photographs, that's all, it doesn't go further. Everything else is just in one's imagination, which says a lot...

No hard feelings, just that I'm getting a bit worried about a certain restricted way of thinking in the western world (you'll understand why I wrote "What am I still doing in Paris?" in my intro.). I get a breathe of fresh air everytime I go to SEA and meet relaxed people...

Cheers.
L.
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Old 10-07-2004, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: To shutterbug: don't agree here

... and btw, my daughter is currently 10 yrs old, cute and blond.
Sometimes people take her in photos, I simply keep an eye, that's all... why worry more.
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Old 10-07-2004, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: To shutterbug: don't agree here

@shutterbug: I was laughing out loud when i read your critique, but i was only counting the tatoos on daddy's arm at thtat time (there where 7, (even a butterfly hahaha))

@oldtree: I do understand that people asked me what I was doing there, I was just being naive and wanted a funny photograph so don't immediately tread me like I'm some kind of pervert wich happens most of the time....

@Luko: wow!!!
I think you're right...... again (STOP IT!!!!!)
never been to Asia, I thought that Italie and France where far more relaxed than Holland, but I quess I have to look it further away...
But everybody already has photographs of Asia what new images can i possibly make there...hmmm stick around in Europa for while i quess

@all: cheers
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Old 10-07-2004, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: To shutterbug: don't agree here

Let's start this way. I do understand your point of view. It's frustrating to try and make some natural shots in a crowd when people look at you as if you are criminal. And now it comes, the surprising "But"...
To say that this behaviour had killed photography in europe is very dramatic. Well is sounds good but I can't really follow you on that road.
You said that you get worried about a certain restricted way of thinking in europe, I would say it's not thinking it's the knowledge which distinguish us from wide areas in asia and africa. The knowledge of what the internet has brought us. Not that I'm saying this in a totally negativ way, I'm a proffessional software developer surfing the internet for more then 10 years now. But the internet has it's drawbacks as well as lot's of advantages.
To shorten this whole thing a bit, let's say that you are a bit more relaxed on that matter and I'm not.
What has disturbed me at the comment was the somewhat rude tone. I looked at the other critics of Stacey Hines and they are caring, nice and in no way comparable with this comment.
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Old 10-07-2004, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: To shutterbug: don't agree here

Hi Jorrit,

if you got the impression I treat you like a pervert than I apologize. This was not my intension and I never mentioned something indicating this. (at least I hope so, if I did it please show me that and we can discuss it)
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: To shutterbug: don't agree here

"To say that this behaviour had killed photography in europe is very dramatic. Well is sounds good but I can't really follow you on that road."

Well, Thomas, believe what you want, these are words from Sebastiao Salgado and Raymond Depardon (two living legends of the photo journalism) taken from interviews in one of the best selling french photo magazne.

"it's the knowledge which distinguish us from wide areas in asia ..."

Travel has taught me there are different kinds of knowledge, when it comes to Asia I'd be quite humble about knowledge. (For example, if I were a professional of the Internet or anything software I'd be quite worried about what is cooking in Bangalore or Singapore).

Anyway and if you permit, what you're talking about is not about the Internet, Gilles de Rais nor Donatien Alphonse de Sade didn't wait for the Internet to act. It's just that sometimes Internet makes it closer to you, it's like Fox News repeating always the same thing, one could almost trust that Irak had a massive destruction programs...

Internet bashing is a sort of return of the Inquisition, Internet has given people a little space of freedom now the majors and rulers want to get some control, so they say it's so baaaad and promit inferno through the people channels, eventually pick a few p2p users and put them to a bonfire. Fear catches up the good people, which is also good the business, and so on...

I just take the Internet like it is, ie. motored by people, websites don't get created overnight by anonymous hands. Crooked people create crooked sites, not the reverse...It happens that I've seen more crooked people in Europe than in Asia, see...
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: To shutterbug: don't agree here

noooo not you!!!
big daddy who came shouting towards me!!!
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Old 10-07-2004, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: To shutterbug: don't agree here

"behaviour that killed photography"

I think we all let our thoughts be influenced by what we see and hear around us and in the news, and that can be quite scary, but we've got to keep in mind that we only here the BAD things in the news, good intentions don't make the newspaper...
So the fear is based on something, ofcourse it is!, but the vision shouldn't be black or white, there's alot of that in between. The real problem is that with all the improved technoligy to comunicate we somehow started to comunicate worse and all mindnumbed nod by everything we hear on the tellie...
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Old 10-10-2004, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: To shutterbug: don't agree here

Hello, I just now read the thread notes today...sorry, so late:)

Thank you Jorrit for understanding the humor in my critique...that's all that was intended :)

Sorry Thomas that you misunderstood my critique as insensitiveness, but thank you for taking the time to read my other critiques to see that I am not the type of person to post rude comments.

I hope all confusion is cleared up :)

~Stacey
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