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Good Luko 2007-04-13 15:07

At first I thought that was interesting with great potential but I felt something bothering me... I thought much alike Animesh about these black pants totally out of tune, also some colors that ought not... Then I read Sohrab and went through his link, even more than Raghu Rai's pic, i wondered what would have sohrab done and realized there is a real backbone in that pic which you didn't use at all but is aesthetically essential.

You're trying to make it happen but nothing is although this pic is not about happening but about a certain overall aesthetic. In your mind you didn't realize that the background is the weakest side of the pic, so i tried to dramatize it the Sorhab way if you don't mind.

Check Ws.

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Old 04-15-2007, 03:28 AM
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Default To Luko: A different reading

There is a different reading of this image, I htink, Luko, one which would justify the presence of those dark pants against the back wall - they look like they might belong to a guard, as in a prison yard - that is the effect to my eyes, regardless of the actual setting. I actually thought it was an integral part of the frame...
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Old 04-15-2007, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: To Luko: A different reading

the pants don't seem to belong to a guard.
they don't seem to belong to a uniform. rather they seem to belong to someone who might have taken a break from office to come here. for example it could be arnab (who also seems to have posted a photograph of the same place taken on the same day. maybe he went there with maciej as well and those are his legs)

plus...

firstly in india the guards uniform usually has the same colour for both shirts and trousers. here the shirt seems to be blue and the trousers seem well creases and jet black.. doesn't seem like a guard's uniform to me.

secondly and most importantly, this is an akhada, a wrestling pit. you won't have uniformed guards in such places.usually akhadas are open in the mornings and in the evenings. someone comes and unlocks the gate and people can just walk in.

i think the reason why luko feels the way he does is because of the soothing EARTHY colours. the wrestlers are blending in so beautifully with the earth. but the black trousers are far too jarring. and not just that.... it's a kind of a weird inclusion. not enough and and the same time too much. maybe if a little more or a little less was included it would have been just about slightly better..
but i think it would have been best if the black wasn't included at all..

however at the end of it, it wouldn't have mattered too much if there was some atmosphere in the photograph. right now the photograph to me, is primarily about the placement of the wrestlers...
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Old 04-15-2007, 05:36 AM
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Default Re: To Luko: A different reading

Look, I was just offering an alternative view because...I LIKE this shot, precisely because of the disposition of the wrestlers within the frame - that is what drew my atention from the thumbnail stage. I thought os Matisse actually. The "guard pants" being so dark in tone give a kind of anchor graphically.
I was also intrigued by Maciej's tendency to undersaturate these days (a common technique of Simon's) - compared with Maciej's earlier Indian pics you have a whole new tonality here (I thik you could see signs of it in his underated Pakistan series.

On a personal note I also think we are sometimes TOO HARSH on Maciej - it all started, I know with this thing about him being talented so we he needed to be kept on his toes but then I sense it degenerated into unduly harsh critiquing. Now that is just MY view, you don't have to share it, bit here's the thing - Maciej has a wonderful photographic eye and all of us on TE are better for it, and I'm glad he still bothers to upload...
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Old 04-15-2007, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: To Luko: A different reading

francis.. you seem a little offended by what i wrote..

i'm not saying it in a way to say that you're wrong, i'm right.
but if i have a difference of opinion i'll put it forward.


"On a personal note I also think we are sometimes TOO HARSH on Maciej - it all started, I know with this thing about him being talented so we he needed to be kept on his toes but then I sense it degenerated into unduly harsh critiquing."

on a personsal note i think we on TE pamper him a little too much..
maciej is a very good photographer but he's taking the plunge into photography full time. so it's important that i don't unduly tell him that this photograph or any other photograph which i feel has missed the mark is great just to make him feel good. in any case, i think it's only luko and i who're "harsh" on maciej from time to time. while the rest of TE still reveres him. and i don't think luko or i are being harsh on him to be honest.

sorry if i made you feel like i was putting your views down. i thought it would snowball into a good healthy discussion where maybe even i could have been exposed to some things that i hadn't thought of before.

i realise that TE is not a place for me.

take care...
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Old 04-15-2007, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: To Luko: A different reading

"I realize that TE is not a place for me."
Sohrab, SOHRAB! That's insane, man, that is sooo over the top...
No one on TE is mor revered and respected than you, and for good reason. I can't even begin to understand how you could conclude with that after the mild discussion that preceded it, not to mention that it is, uh...a rather arrogant thing to say when you stop and think. Akin t Coriolanus' famous "I banish you."

Elsewhere you say:
"a good healthy discussion where maybe even i could have been exposed to some things that i hadn't thought of before."
Well, what about my idea about the guard, Sohrab? You don't have to agree with it, but it is markedly "different".

I took no offense my friend, believe me, I just wanted to say something in Maciej' defense - as you see he is chracteristically quite on this issue. This was just meant to be an exchange of ideas, nothing personal about it.

As to Maciej being pampered on TE, maybe three years ago but no longer as far as I can see. Once he stopped uploading crowd pleasing heavily saturated close-ups of Gipsy girls drinking coke and Indian children, he had to scramble for every point. His Pakistan work which I found sober and dignified drew very little interest as did his fine African stuff. So I kinda disagree with you there, frankly.

But whatever you do, do NOT abandon us on the basis of some silly comments by Furachan. ou are far too precious to the community. Okay?

Kindest regards,
Francis
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Old 04-15-2007, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: To Luko: A different reading

hey no no..
i don't mean that i'm going to leave TE

but it just seemed that you were not happy about what i wrote..
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Old 04-15-2007, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: To Luko: A different reading

Interesting to read all that is being written about this pic - I appreciated it for its geometry and relationships and for its almost lacksidaisical (how the hell do you spell that?) sense of involvement in the business they are there for - perhaps it's already getting hot..........I know when I tried to find martial artists to train in India with it was often at 5 am in the morning!.....anyway - my small contribution to this thread was I didn't even realise it was Maciek until the last minute when the pampering talk began .......I like what I read about each character in this image and I like that whatever I may have read there will be many surprises in what they are capable of which make a lie of this image ......it works for me on many levels.....


bw Kev
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: To Luko: A different reading

Francis..
In fact I am not agree with your statement..
Not because of Sohrab is there..
But I told you my views..

I Liked to be Maciej..for his eye..& He is not 100% but million times better than any of TE GUY except few like Sohrab & few others..
But As I am saying you,,He is just behind positioning..
That really dose not mean anything at times..
Also I agree that photography is not necessarily to mean something but to pleasant to eyes..
But class Of maciaj is to attend VII seminar & get portfolio reviewed by Salagado..

And what LUKO or Sohrab is saying is VALID one..& they have every right to say so..since caliber & knowledge of Photography is different...
And certainly that half smiley dose not mean what anybodies rated half smiley..

Do you see what I mean???
-regards,
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Old 04-17-2007, 12:25 PM
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Default harsh critiques and bad photos

thank Francis for defending me ;) but it is ok, I appreciate those critical comments from Luko and Sohrab, getting a full smiley from Luko is really hard for me, but when I get one it means something.
Sohrab: I understand what you feel now, you say you don't like your own photos and all photos you see from other people are disapointing. I feel exactly the same - I don't like my photos, I feel that I am not making 100% out of me, I feel that I can do better. Joachim said he liked my photos very much, somehow it is very strange too me, how can he like them if I don't like them, if I see that I can do better...
and all photos from the photographers I admired for such a long time don't look good anymore, I looked at Raghu Rai's photos from Calcutta and I don't like them, I don't like many photos from Alex Webb and other photographers I admired before. I still admire them, but I expect sth more from them, and from myself.
but I have to live with my photos, even if I am not 100% satisfied with them, that's me at this moment
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: harsh critiques and bad photos

well that's kind of my point I thnk sometimes our self-loathing (photographially) can lead to a harsh viewpoint... Now I still write (for the most part) candied critiques but I positively hate most of what comes outta my camera. As to the "Greats", sons always turn on their fathers, it is the natural way. Webb has driven many young guys crazy with his intricacies bt after a while, let's be honest...he appears somehow "cold" and studied to me. And so we turn to those who never change, who are rock solid, like HCB for one. No flies on him...
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