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-   -   stolen contrast, by TE (https://www.trekearth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406725)

leiju 04-12-2007 06:30 PM

stolen contrast, by TE
 
Hey, You!

I just posted a picture and was surprised to find it really bleak compared to the version on my computer... I then uploaded it onto my website to see if it was a problem with my preview program or whether it was TE...

I'll let you compare the same picture uploaded onto <a href="http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe/Latvia/photo623481.htm" target="blank">TE</a> and onto <a href="http://www.leiju.net/pictures/latvija.jpg" target="blank">my website</a>.

Does anyone have any explanation, any solution?
Thank You very much in advance!

Julia

green 04-12-2007 06:33 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
There's absolutly no difference on my screen.

vapours 04-12-2007 06:54 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
Looks exactly the same to me.

isabib 04-12-2007 07:14 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
the only difference I could see is the filesize but not that a huge difference. you can post a max of 200kb here on TE.

fayeulle 04-12-2007 08:20 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
No difference ! There is no color management on a website !
JP

Luko 04-12-2007 10:15 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
Am I the only to see that Trekearth version is less contrasted on the building?
and btw, there is some kind of color management with IE, which says that you can chose any kind of color space providing its sRGB. (no Adobe98!)

green 04-13-2007 12:04 AM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
I've loaded both image on two different tabs in Firefox and been switching from one tab to the other many time and couldn't see no difference at all.

Luko 04-13-2007 12:10 AM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
Yes, with with my main monitor (photo use) at home I don't see any difference now while this was pretty obvious on the other one (boring stuff use) at work... hence it might also be a monitor calibration problem...

green 04-13-2007 12:47 AM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
Although, I've noticed that files size in byte are different. 96Kb on TE and 139Kb for the one on the other site.

leiju 04-13-2007 01:22 AM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
hmmm... interesting...

It's actually the first time this happens to me and I haven't changed any settings at all... it's really rather odd!
How could there be a calibration problem that seems apparent now when it hadn't been before? Or could it be that something has changed somewhere?

I normally use Safari, but the same problem appears on Firefox!
... what to do? What to do?

Oh, and since you saw no difference at all on your main monitor, which of the versions appeared? The darker or the lighter version?

Thanks a bunch for having checked it out on both monitors!
All the best,
Julia

leiju 04-13-2007 01:35 AM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
Hey, thanks for taking the time to check it out!
Oddly enough it is exactly the same picture! One posted through TE and the other uploaded through ftp onto my site (about ten minutes later). No change in between, no nothing. So, how is this possible?
Oh, and before I posted it, my dearest computer told me the file is 197kb... which made me wonder even more once I uploaded it: it seemed to shrink! And when I try to upload a picture my computer tells me is 200kb TE doesn't accept it (saying it's too large). I'm a bit lost...

Thanks for your time!
All the best,
Julia

fayeulle 04-13-2007 09:04 AM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
1 k = 1000
1 kb = 1024

leiju 04-13-2007 12:05 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
Thanks for the info... however it doesn't really explain why a 197 kb file on my computer translater into a 96 kb file on TE. Any takes on that?

fayeulle 04-13-2007 12:33 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
I think it's simply impossible. If the is a download error the file should be corrupted and it will be impossible to read it. On the server side there no device to change the JPEG quality. I think you saved the file with a low quality (96kb) with your photo software opened, uploaded it on TE, and saving it again on your HD then close your software.

luisafonso 04-13-2007 02:29 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
Hi,
I opened the two photos in Firefox and in my office's CRT monitor there is no single difference in them. I downloaded each file and they have some differences though:
Site version: 141.355 bytes and Exif Information
TE version: 98.161 bytes and no Exif Information

First of all, there is no way I am aware of that the same file could look differently when downloaded from two locations in the same browser. And when I say the "same file" I really mean the "same file".

That said, my best bet is that these ones are not the same file, which they aren't because they don't have the same size nor the same information, and probably you have applied some different color spaces when saving them. The cool (or not so cool) thing is that probably only Mac users will notice this... Have you saved TE's version using save for web option with windows color space? That might be an answer...

Most of the times, lack of contrast when publishing to the web comes from the wrong use of color spaces. You use a color space when editing in CS2 which is different from the browser's color space and when you see it in a browser (coming from TE or even in your own computer) it will look different. There is also the Mac vs Windows thing, so there is a lot to cover here. Check <a href="http://www.trekearth.com/read.php?f=2&t=394153&m=554937" target="new">this thread</a> for more info about the subject. Hope it helps.

Stay safe, l.

greg 04-13-2007 04:11 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
My guess is that you took the photo in raw mode and uses a colour profile other than sRGB in the raw-processing step. Other profiles may be better for printing, but are worse for screen display. The loss of bytes is probably the removal of this embedded profile by TE.

leiju 04-13-2007 09:11 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
Hey, thanks for your input. I thought it was impossible as well. And still don't understand what happened.
Here is what I did, step to step:
- opened file in CS2, resized it, adjusted curves, added frame + name.
- did a save as (naming it Latvija.jpg), with file size down to 8 (as maximum would have been too big).
- checked the size of the file on HD: 197kb (according to Finder - I'm running on Mac OS X) and decided it was big enough without being too small.
- opened TE in Safari, selected country, selected picture from desktop, uploaded.
- added info about genre + all the rest and then said *post*.
- checked the outcome on TE and wondered about the odd colours.
- went back to CS2 (hadn't closed image) and wondered WITHOUT resaving picture.
- opened Cyberduck (ftp upload program), logged on to my website, and uploaded SAME shot/file.
- opened picture that just uploaded onto website, compared and then posted this thread onto the forum.

Honestly, I really don't understand what happened.
Perhaps some sort of internet/computer vortex of unexplainable reasoning? ;D

leiju 04-13-2007 09:19 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
Hey! Thank You for your input.
I just wrote a little <a href="http://www.trekearth.com/read.php?f=5&t=406725&m=572042" target="blank">step-by-step</a> of what I did. Perhaps I went wrong at some point?

I am really lost with this case. It seems really strange that the two versions would be different, and more importantly that they have a different size. They are truly the same file. I did not re-save in between. Definitely not. I was more interested in figuring out whether it was a browser problem or not, than anything else.

As for the save for web: after using it successfully a good number of times, I became more and more annoyed by the way it distorts colours, and hence went back to "save as" with adjusted compression. Whether it is a good idea or not remains to be seen :D but thanks for the idea about windows colours space, I'll have to look into that. And thank YOU for the thread about the colour space. It might indeed prove to be a good idea to use windows colour space as, let's face it, most people use windows anyway (why on Earth would anyone do that? ;P)...

Again, Thank You for your time!
All the best,
Julia

leiju 04-13-2007 09:20 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
The loss of bytes is probably the removal of this embedded profile by TE.

Ha! You might have hit the nail in the head right there!
Thank You! I will most definitely look into that!

I do use sRGB though, but will have to check if I'm doing everything right along the way.

Thank You!
All the best,
Julia

greg 04-13-2007 10:21 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
It surprises me that using 'save for web' makes the colours worse, because this guarantees you're using sRGB. I don't know macs, though - it could be that that your super-mac monitor has a better colour range than a standard one, and you are using by default a colour profile to suit that.

You might be interested to see <a href="http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe/Germany/photo524804.htm">this</a>, which has the wrong profile, and the <a href="http://www.trekearth.com/workshops/524804/photo82975.htm">workshop</a> that I put later with sRGB.

luisafonso 04-16-2007 05:13 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
That's indeed very strange. So the only explanation for the smaller size on the TE version is that you chose to delete the EXIF information permanently before hit the post button. I don't know what happens when you do that (perhaps Adam can explain...), but that's the only explanation I can find... But the bytes difference is somehow large. Never thought a simple exif info would take so much.

leiju 04-16-2007 10:29 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
... but I didn't delete anything!

I left the exif info as it is, untouched...
I think greg hit the nail on the head: the picture had a color profile which is unused on TE and hence automatically deleted.

Thanks for looking into it again though :D
All the best,
Julia

mlopes 04-19-2007 02:41 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
true!
i do see some diference, especially in the building.

erdna 06-17-2007 07:51 AM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
I do see a slight difference in the contrast of the building. Some web sites convert your RGB format to sRGB. They claim that sRGB looks better in web. Could that be the cause?

Andre'

AdrianW 06-19-2007 04:35 AM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
It's a colour profiles issue. The version on your website has an embedded AdobeRGB profile, the version on TE doesn't; perhaps because TE strips them? Since there are very few browsers that support embedded profiles, most of us can't see any difference.

Safari is one of the few profile aware browsers that I know of, so I guess you're using a Mac? Or masochistic enough to download the beta ;)

Have a look at this test page: <a href="http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_profile/embeddedJPEGprofiles.html">Embedded profiles test</a>

I disagree with his assumptions though. It's assumed, by Adobe, and most other folk, that web images are implicitly sRGB - so assuming everything is sRGB for web saves us all bandwidth.

Using SaveForWeb converts the colours to sRGB, but only tags it if you check the box.

utamaputranto 07-01-2007 05:06 PM

Re: stolen contrast, by TE
 
did u save for web?


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